All your people were very professional and most helpful.

I also will refer any friends or family to One Stop Motors.

Regards,

Ira Epstein

We had the EXACT same problem. We were told by the dealer that they were 99.9% sure our deal would go through. Until CARS finally said that the 99 Suburbans were Category 3. Like I said in a different post, if this information was available from the beginning, we wouldn’t have used the CARS program.

The bads news for you is that the program ended yesterday :O(

the possibly useful news in case the program is later extended, from cars.gov:

From the Consumer FAQ

I have an SUV with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) under 8500 lbs. and a curb weight over 6000 lbs. I thought this vehicle was a category 1, but the website does not have a fuel economy rating for it. Can I still participate in the CARS program?

YES. SUVs with a GVWR under 8500 lbs. and a curb weight over 6000 lbs. are not rated for fuel economy by EPA. Therefore, these vehicles are treated as category 3 trucks and must have a model year of 2001 or older (but manufactured no earlier than 25 years prior to the date the vehicle is traded in). The special rules relevant to the trade-in of category 3 trucks apply.

Note: When using the comparison tool on our website, your trade-in vehicle will not appear
__________________________________

From the Dealer FAQ

My consumer has an SUV with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) under 8500 lbs. and a curb weight over 6000 lbs. Is there a special manner in which I must enter a CARS Program credit application for this type of trade-in vehicle?

YES. When you enter the attachments on the qualifying CARS Program credit application you will need to do two additional things:

1. Include a cover page that states ?Unrated by EPA because trade-in has a GVWR under 8500/Curb Weight over 6000.?
2. At step 8 of the iSupplier screen, under ?Invoice Description,? write the following: ?Note: Unrated by EPA because trade-in has a GVWR under 8500/Curb Weight over 6000.?

My name is Paul M Larkin and I live in Ohio. I am in need of your support and assistance. I currently have a 1999 GMC 4-wheel drive Suburban with 318,000 miles. I am in desperate need to take advantage of the Clunker Program.
Last week I went into a Honda dealership in hopes of taking advantage of the trade in program. I have been advised by three different car dealerships that the vehicle I own qualifies for the $4500.00 dollar trade in program, however, is not on the list.
I selected the vehicle that I wanted and went thru the proper credit check etc. and was approved for the purchase. However, when the dealer put my vehicle name, year and model into the government approved program, it does not recognize a GMC or Chevrolet 4- wheel drive Suburban. (It does recognize a 2-wheel drive). A vehicle that clearly meets the requirements by the federal government.
The dealer has advised me that the program has left out several vehicles off their list of approved automobiles for the Clunker program. They have submitted to the program administrators the problem at hand and have had no luck in a return emails or phone calls from them.
I need your assistance to put pressure on the program administrators to review and add my vehicle to the list. It clearly meets the requirements and is an oversight by the administrators. As you can imagine, I am very concerned that I will miss out on the Clunker program due to an oversight by the agency. Please assist me in my efforts to take part in this great program offered by our government. I can be contacted directly and look forward to hearing from you or one of your staff members. Thank you again in advance.

Ok 99 Suburban was classified by the NHSTA as a “heavy duty” Cat 3 “TRUCK”. They said that even though GMS rated it a under 6000 lbs, curb weight, they do not use the MFG data but their own.

The problem as a Consumer is that although the intent was there the EPA, NHSTA, and FuelEconomy found every different “excuse” in my situation. My Suburban is a “gas guzzler”, but how rediculous to replace it with only a few MPG improvement.

Boo Hoo to the Dealer that offered to take a trade for the Suburban, but increase the quote that was one day expired. Shame on the other dealers selling at MSRP to make more profit on their end.
For those of you “Tax Payers”, outh there that like me met the MPG and document requirements, had a true fuel hog, and just wanted to save on gas, I think that we should all inform our State government how “pissed” we are that a good thing turned sour because of these organizations put in charge have their heads in the wrong place.

For now I wait for all the crooked dealers out there to start begging with incentives to make a sale. And my question to them will be “During the CFC, did you sell at MSRP?” And when they answer YES, then I’ll tell them where they can take their deal.

Pissed! Another ObamaNation Folks!!!!

P.S. I don’t see anything anywhere in the law or Rule that categorizes a vehicle over 6000 lb CURB weight as a cat 3…the only reference is to the GVWR. According to GVWR, your Suburban is a cat 2 vehicle. I personally think the reply you received from the EPA is incorrect as regards CARS.

As I said below, it seems that NHTSA may be reviewing unlisted vehicles on a case by case basis.

Have you talked to your local dealers? There is a space on the application to designate and describe an unlisted vehicle, but then you (and the dealer) have to wait for a special review process by the NHTSA… at least that is the way it looks to me.

Maybe you can find a dealer that is willing to try it that way (of course, you wouldn’t want to expect him/her to be on the hook for the deal). Good luck!

The 99 Subruban 4 WD has a GVWR less than 8500 lbs, but a curb weight over 6000 pounds. Therefore, it is classified as a heavy-duty vehicle and therefore not subject to fuel economy labeling requirements which is why you don’t see it on the CARS.gov web site. These vehicles are eligible to participate, but for the purposes of the CARS program, these vehicles are treated as category 3 trucks and must have a model year of 2001 or older in order to be traded in. Also, Category 3 vehicles cannot be traded for category 1 vehicles.

I hope this answers your question.

the reply i got a month later from the EPA….

Can any of you dealers out there tell me if you know that a 1999 Chevrolet Suburban 1500 4WD with a GVWR of 7300lbs, could be traded in for $3500 under the “Over 8500 lb catagory”?

I hope this all backfires on them. It’s another Tax Payer Program that I could not participate in. What else it coming, Healthcare?

Unlike a lot of people dealing with the program, my dealership was at no point any cause of any trouble or worry for me. It was the bank and the government that caused my stresses.

On July 31st, I took my 1992 Jeep Cherokee on her final voyage. I left my dealership with a 2009 Honda Fit. The people at Walser Honda were so helpful and accomodating to all of their customers dealing with this mess of a program.

The program did work for a lot of people. The problem was the lack of organization and the ability for dealerships to interpret and make up their own rules.

Whether you bought domestic or foreign, it put people to work. It did stimulate the auto industry as it intended (GM has put thousands of people back to work to meet demand due to the program) and it helped dealerships stay alive, at least for now.

Preparation is key, and this is what we’ve learned from this program. It has to be adequately funded, adequately staffed and all the rules set in stone BEFORE it is available to the public. Hopefully, this will be a lesson learned for future government programs.

There has to be structure, period. I congratulate the participating car dealerships that were treating their customers right and abiding by all of the government’s rules for this.

Good to see this site! I have bought a new Prius in Herb Chanmbers Toyota of Boston, MA and submit my all paperworks for the cash-for-clunker though them. They originally told me 3-4 days to get approval, and now they don’t release my new car after three weeks of waiting. The dealership tries to blame on the NHTSA agency for this but I really become the hostage. They even have cashed my check for the rest of the amount of the new car right after the new car is sold to me.

I have talked to the General Manager of the dealership and he said
only less 5% cash-for-clunker gets approved so far and my car will only be release if they get the govement approval first. Is that leagal? Please advise what I could/should do.

I believe we should have the media (TV/Newspapers/web) to make this kind of traps be known by all consumers and govement agency and put auto dealer’s business back to long recession!

Thanks,
Mark.

On a brighter note: I picked up my new Scion xd Monday, Aug. 17th (all my paperwork was submitted on July 28th)! Our dealer had all of his applications approved on Saturday!! They were fair with the scrap value ($200.00 extra bucks for me)! Unfortunately for others our dealer has decided not to continue with the program (as of Monday A.M.) – they are owed too much money – and I am sure more dealers will follow.

To those who are still waiting – be patient!!!

Don’t sign anything holding you responsible should the dealer not submit for his rebate timely, properly or is otherwise not approved. He has every reason NOT to play ball with you should he believe the transaction will not be eligible. Go to CARS.Gov and read (at least) page 123 Purchaser Certification. If you cannot certify that the conditions spelled out there hold true for you, then you have no business engaging in C4C transaction.

Best to you. Keep us posted. I would use the “speak up” button along right border as more folks browse there.

@Mark … take your meds.

http://www.cars.gov/files/official-information/rule.pdf

Find another dealer. What they are attempting to do is make you pay for the car before you buy it.

@ Teri Cody… So far, it sounds like your dealer is doing it right. Yes, you are supposed to complete the deal before the CARS paperwork is submitted. After you have completed your deal, including receiving the credit off the price of your new vehicle, and taking delivery on the new vehicle, then the dealer submits an invoice for reimbursement. The reimbursement is between the govt and the dealer, you are not involved (make sure your dealer sees it this way as well).

Make sure that you DO NOT SIGN any document saying that you will be responsible for the amount of the CARS credit if it is rejected for any reason. Watch over your dealer’s shoulder as he makes sure you have all required documentation and all necessary signatures (educate yourself as to exactly what these are).

Then enjoy your new car.

Trade–2000 Ford Crown Vic Police Interceptor
Purchase–2009 Nissan Altima LS
Dealer–Conyers Nissan

The dealer was willing to do a “CFC” trade only if all the documentation was in hand. Once that was done, price agreed, it was simple from there for me. I had my financing lined up and within a few hours had my new car to take home. Dealership complained about the delays in getting $$$ back, but welcomed the traffic generated by the program.

My advice is similar to others–if you are going to do it, have your documentation in order and move now. This is a very generous program with no income limits. I believe future programs will have income limits and/or be less in funding. I would not have qualified if they had the income limits discussed when extending the funding. Act now and good luck!

From the South Florida Sun-Sentinel:

Monster truck eats clunkers for lunch! Clunkers traded in to Sawgrass Ford for more fuel efficient vehicles were lined up and crushed by a five ton Ford Monster Truck called Instigator.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/entertainment/news/thingstodo/sfl-clunkers-mashed-pg,0,1014571.photogallery

Project: NHTSA Hotline Center
Case: cars
Case Number: 166386

Escalation: None Status: Closed
Date: 2009-08-14 Time: 18:49:47
Creation Date: 2009-08-12 Creation Time: 23:31:44

Description:
Entered on 08/14/2009 at 18:49:47 EDT (GMT-0400) by Kiianah Johnson:
Thank you for contacting the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Vehicle Safety Hotline Information Center.

For Cash for Cars fraud concerns, please contact the hotline of the Office of the Inspector General at D.O.T. at 1-800-424-9071.

We hope that you find this information helpful. However, if you need additional information on our services please feel free to contact us at 1-888-327-4236.

Thank you,

NHTSA.dot.gov Response Team

What to bring to the dealer to qualify:

One-year Proof of Insurance. If your insurance card does not cover the entire year preceding the trade in, you will need other proof of insurance. Contact your insurance company to get evidence of one-year worth of insurance. The form must include, at a minimum, the insurance company, policy number, VIN, start and end date of insurance (showing at least 1 year).
Proof of Registration going back at least one-year.
“Clear” title. This means the title must be free of any liens or other encumbrances. If you have liens, you need to get these cleared before going to the dealer. This may include evidence on the face of the title showing no lien; that the title has been cleared (signed and stamped accordingly), or with an attached lien release from the lien holder.
The vehicle manufacturer date found on the driver’s door or door jamb is less than 25 years old when you trade it in.

If you do not have any of the above items in your possession, you may do the following:

Call your insurance company and have them provide evidence of 1 years worth of insurance on the trade-in vehicle. Make sure it includes the minimum requirements noted above.
Contact your DMV for copies of prior registration certificates to show proof of ownership of the trade-in vehicle for at least the past year. The name on the registration must be the same as the name on the title and the same as the purchaser of the new vehicle.
Clear your title by paying-off any loans outstanding and receive either a newly issued title from the DMV that is free of all liens and other encumbrances, or have the lien release document from the lien holder (signed and stamped accordingly), or your title signed and stamped accordingly (showing it is clear)
Once you are at the dealer you will be asked to certify to the following under penalty of law. The above documents will provide proof to the dealer to assist in this certification process.

The trade-in is in drivable condition.
You are the registered owner, and have been for at least the last year.
The trade-in has been continuously insured for the last year.

The trade-in is titled in your name and has been for the last year.
You have not previously participated in the CARS program.

CLOSEDOWNLOADABLE PDF

Call the CARS hotline, the OIG hotline, and your state’s Attorney General. Perhaps they can let your dealer know exactly what law proscribes his actions under the CARS progrqam.

EXCERPT BELOW…

We’ve heard that dealers are asking consumers to sign agreements with contingencies when they participate in the CARS program.

CONSUMERS SHOULD NOT SIGN CONTINGENCY AGREEMENTS TO PAY BACK THE DEALER SHOULD THE CARS CREDIT BE REJECTED.

We’ve also heard that dealers are asking consumers are asking consumers to keep their “clunker” until the deal is approved by NHTSA.

IF THE DEALER HAS THE NEW CAR IN STOCK, THE DEALER MUST ALLOW YOU TO TAKE POSSESSION OF THE NEW CAR BEFORE THE DEALER MAY SUBMIT THE CREDIT APPLICATION TO THE GOVERNMENT. PLEASE REPORT ANY DEALER TO NHTSA THAT DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO TAKE POSSESSION OF A NEW CAR PURCHASED UNDER THE CARS PROGRAM. PLEASE CALL THE CARS HOTLINE AT (866) CAR-7861.

The dealer has told me that I cannot take my new car home and that I have to wait until the CARS credit application is approved before I can take possession of my new car. Can the dealer do this?

No. If the dealer has the new car, the dealer must allow you to take possession of the car before the dealer may submit the CARS credit application to the government. Please report any dealer to NHTSA that does not allow you take possession of a new car purchased under the CARS Program.

An arbitration agreement??? Yikes, talk about CYA.

I hate to break the news to you, but unless you buy a new car elsewhere before 2010, in addition to the $4.5K lost due to dealer screw up, you will lose the tax savings associated with buying the new car. This year, federal taxpayers will be able to deduct both local and state sales tax paid on new car purchases up to $49,500. The tax break will cover the purchase of any new car, domestic or foreign, through the end of 2009.

Good luck, I hope you get your Rav4 soon.