Comments on: NHTSA Body Slams Cash for Clunkers Contingencies

By: Heather

Heather — Fri, 28 Aug 2009 02:11:08 +0000

I bought my car on June 24th and hereAug 27th still dealing with dealership now telling me I have to return car cause it wont go through on cash for clunkers (coggin Nissan) on atlantic blvd Jacksonville Fl I think its absolutely ridiculous I sifned the paperwork was approved for loan a month ago and my trade in that was given 4500 for trade in they have had entire time what they did with is anyones guess….can they do this is it legal ….frustrated beyond belief

By: Al

Al — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 02:46:12 +0000

I bought today and had my new car held hostage as well. I got to drive my clunker back home unaware that I shoudl not have allowed this to happen.

I plan to go in tomorrow and demand politely that my car be released. I did not sign any contengency, and paid a $1000.00 deposit on my new car.

Next step will be calling all of the local media, police, and a lawyer.

By: Tony

Tony — Fri, 21 Aug 2009 01:17:52 +0000

Alan said … “Registration on the other hand has no warning other than remembering to buy a new tag around your birthday”

Move to NY Alan. Here we get all of the paperwork sent to our homes weeks ahead of the expiration date. This is so we have enough time to go to the bank to take a out a loan to pay for it all.

By: Tony Hidalgo

Tony Hidalgo — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 03:21:46 +0000

I traveled over 50 miles because the dealer only less than a mile away were selling at MSRP for the program. Who sells at MSRP? The NHSTA may have made atatement about the way dealers were doing business, but what did that do? You had to go elsewhere. Great job Mr Government Agencies. A great idea gon “SOUR”!

By: Alan

Alan — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 23:45:19 +0000

From my point of view the program simply overwhelmed dealerships and the government with paperwork and red tape. The men and women working at the dealerships are only in it for the money, and the men and women working for the government are all do-boys, which still overwhelms the real decision makers when it comes to crunch-time. Also, the dealerships make more money off the bigger, less fuel efficient vehicles than they do the smaller ones; meaning that they only had a handful of the eligible vehicles on their lot to begin with.

Back to the red tape, I must say it is bogging down the decision makers and causing several deals to be botched due only to long hours and headaches. I tried to trade in a 1985 Iszuzu Trooper that gets horrible gas mileage and pollutes the air, they rejected it because the tag expired and was renewed less than a month after expiration. The insurance did not lapse, however, so it wasn’t some plot to steal money from the government it was more of a common human error: forgetfulness.

My point to all this is simple: stop frustrating everyone and give the dealerships their money for deals made on vehicles which have obviously had insurance and been registered. Insurance usually has to be canceled to show a lapse, since they require an extra month of payment upon initial set-up; so if you forget a month and get behind you are still covered..bugged about the payment but still covered. Registration on the other hand has no warning other than remembering to buy a new tag around your birthday, and I’m not sure about you all but “buying” anything around my birthday is usually forgotten.

By: Morgan

Morgan — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:41:45 +0000

16 days since we signed a photocopy of our title (not the real one) so the dealer could submit paperwork to CARS. They haven’t tried to have us sign contingencies and we still have our clunker, but we’re getting frustrated waiting to get our new car (which is sitting on their lot).
On one hand, I can understand the dealer’s view that if the money runs out or some form isn’t signed properly or some paper pusher is having a bad day, they could be stuck for the $4500. They’re a local dealer with a decent reputation and they’re just trying to stay in business.
We, however, want our new car before our old one dies. If it does die we’ll just have it towed to the dealer and say, “yes, the regs say it’s supposed to be running and drivable, which it was when we made the deal”

By: Denise

Denise — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:28:34 +0000

14 days and counting. Regardless of the clarified rule, our vehicle is still being held hostage. Clunker is not safe to drive and was left at dealership. We were thankful for the program at first but now we are just completely frustrated with the whole thing. We’ve been able to borrow cars from family but will be forced to rent a car to get to work if this goes on much longer.

By: Bill

Bill — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:19:37 +0000

Casey, you have a point. Earlier, you wrote: “Have you tried to speak with the gsm. If your like most cfc customers you have great credit and are good and honorable folk. Let him know your on his side and if there is a problem you would be willing to be fair in resolving anything that may arrise I’m confident most dealerships gsm’s would allow deliver. Being nice and sincere with your dealer always reults in better customer care.”

We signed paperwork on August 3rd. Title, insurance, trade–our clunker for the new model purchased–are no problem. Still, our dealer had us sign a contingency release requiring us to pay the $4500 if the government did not approve the deal. As it was presented, we believed it was part of the overall government paperwork. (It sure looked like it was.)

Our dealer now has both our clunker and the new car on its lot for two weeks. The government is pressuring the dealer to release our new car, and the government is instructing us to avoid signing contingency releases. (Too late.)

We wanted to have a contingency plan to rate our clunker as a trade in should the CARS voucher fail. The trouble is, our dealer wants to appraise our vehicle for 60% of its Kelly Blue Book value (the dealer-trade-in value from KBB). We wanted to start at the KBB valuation and negotiate, but they are not willing to budge.

By the way, I have subsequently read the entire 136-page Rule and 20-page Ammendment (from cars.gov). It is clear all of the things being said now were in those original writings, but they are too voluminous. How many consumers read all the way through both of them before heading out to car shop? While nothing has essentially changed since these documents, the newly issued clarity should have been made public up front.

Where is the assistance for those, like us, stuck in between the former cloudy guidance and the now crystal clear guidance? We fear to take the car — the deal is good (I’m sure of that) but the chance for minor paperwork error is very high. While this won’t nullify the voucher, it will require the dealer to re-file and begin waiting all over again. If we have obligated ourselves to cover the $4500, what incentive does the dealer have to take the high road?

Casey said, “If not come see me our dealership has 30 smiling drivers.” Yes, but what about those who find ourselves stuck in the middle after the fact?

- Bill

By: casey

casey — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:01:45 +0000

cathy should have bought a nissan across the street

By: Indy

Indy — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:51:18 +0000

From the CARS RULE:

Anyone who thinks illegal activity related to this program has occurred may also
call the Hotline of the Office of the Inspector General (OIG) at the U.S. Department of
Transportation. The toll free number is 1-800-424-9071. The OIG Hotline is an
important tool for reporting allegations of fraud, waste, abuse, or mismanagement in the
Department’s programs or operations, including the CARS program. The Hotline is setup
to receive allegations in a variety of forms, including by email (hotline@oig.dot.gov),
regular mail (DOT Inspector General, P.O. Box 708, Fredericksburg, VA 22404), fax
(540-373-2090), and the toll free number identified above. The OIG Hotline is open 24
hours a day, seven days a week.”

Also contact your state’s Attorney General’s Office

By: cathy

cathy — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:01:45 +0000

Sorry didnt mean to post this twice.But just as a FYI to the victims of C4C..this is a way to contact the justice dept..Which I did by email…

BY MAIL:
Correspondence to the Department, including the Attorney General, may be sent to:

U.S. Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20530-0001
BY E-MAIL:
Before sending e-mail, please read our Privacy Policy for details about how we handle personal information.

E-mails to the Department of Justice, including the Attorney General, may be sent to AskDOJ@usdoj.gov. THIS E-MAIL ACCOUNT IS NOT AVAILABLE FOR SERVICE OF OFFICIAL, CASE-RELATED OR LEGAL DOCUMENTS AND IS NOT MONITORED FOR SUCH SUBMISSIONS OR FOR OTHER TIME-SENSITIVE COMMUNICATIONS. E-mails with attachments will be deleted because they may contain viruses.

E-mails will be forwarded to the responsible Department of Justice component for appropriate handling.

By: cathy

cathy — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 15:56:48 +0000

CASH FOR CLUNKERS CONSUMERS BEWARE!
On July 26th,(1 day after program started) we went to DCH Honda,in Temecula CA to buy a Honda Accord using the “cash for clunkers” CARS program.We traded our old 1987 C-20 Chevy truck (a clunker) & purchased a 2009 Honda Accord,After over 5 -6 hours,we signed a Retail installment sales contract & almost 15 papers ( for CARS prog.)we were told by 3 DCH Honda employees the deal with CARS was done,they took possion of our truck,we drove home the honda.
Friday on 07/31/09..5 days later DCH fin. manager called, said they needed more proof of prev.yrs insurance & the pink slip.I told him they had all copies..guy said well I didn’t see it..I said well we will bring it in…the guy says well we need you & husband to sign one more paper from the CARS program.I ask what kind of paper?..He said its part of the NHTSA requirement.I said NO we signed almost 16 papers, CARS required papers.
My husband went down about 30 minutes later.. Financial manger never asked to see the insurance or pink slip…He told my husband he had to sign the paper..Ray (my husband) said and if I don’t ..guy said well you can bring the car back..Ray said take this middle part out of this part and I will sign. The guy told Ray I cant do that it’s a government Document..Ray said, no its not ,there is no letter head,form number nothing that says its from the CARS Program…

In short this is what it says..
CUSTOMER DECLARATION & ACKNOWLEDGMENT CARS CASH FOR CLUNKERS PROGRAM
Customer acknowledges that in the event the NHTSA determines that the above Trade Vehicle is not eligible for a CARS credit (due to it not meeting the programs requirements,an exhaustion of funds for the CARS program,or any other reason),customer remain liable for payment of full price of vehicle prior to application of the CARS voucher amount,and customer agrees to reimburse the dealer for the amount of the anticipated CARS credit applied to their new vehicle purchase or difference,if any,between the voucher received and that anticipated.In such event,customers agree to grant dealer a lien on the title to the new vehicle to secure the amount of customers obligation.If customer cannot,or will not satisfy their obligation on demand,dealer shall have the option to demand recission, in which case, customer shall immediately return new vehicle to dealer, customer will receive cash amounts paid,LESS reasonable charge for use and wear and tear on vehicle, provided the dealer WILL NOT HAVE TO RETURN customer trade-in and is only Obligated to pay to customer the SCRAP Value of such trade vehicle.”
(the below part was taken off the NHTSA form.)
“warning ”
“This is a legal document that contains certifications under the penalty of law.There are significant civil and criminal penalties for submitting false information.Please read each certification and ensure that the information that you are certifying by signing this documents,to the best of your knowledge and belief true,accurate & complete”

So my husband told the guy he wouldn’t sign anything until our lawyer looked at it…Then two guys came up and said you don’t have to do that just bring back the car.He said no I have a contract and I’m not bringing the car back.
My husband walked our with the un-carbon paper(meaning if we signed it,there would be NO PAPER TRAIL TO GOVERMENT)& we would not have a carbon copy of it Only DCH would!
DCH Honda of Temecula was trying to pass this off as a must sign contract/agreement from the CARS program NHTSA doc .Also on the paper they wanted us to sign, DCH put in the a BACK DATE(07/26/09 when in fact it was 07/31/09 next to where we were too sign our name, print it and date it.
Also DCH Honda did not put in the right type of vehicle according to the vin number.The one they have done qualifies for $4500.00.(when in fact they gave us a $3500.00 voucher)Also “DCH Honda” now has our clunker & possibly the $3500 cash from Gov which may have been already wire transferred into their account.
Is This dealer double dipping the gov? Or are they going to return the $3500.00 back to the government, if we return the car?
Or keep it..does the government have any checks & balances in place.
Also If we return the Honda, we can be charged for use age, wear & tear etc?(what ever price they determine).Loose our 2nd vehicle, husbands only transportation to work.They will not return it too us we get scrap value (what ever that amount is,no dollar amount was ever given to us in writing)?
We still have not signed it..
Yesterday 8/14/09 DCH Honda of temecula called and asked for me to fax them my Driver lic.I said what are you kidding me,you mean to tell me YOU STILL HAVE NOT GOT THE APPROVAL FROM CARS!We were at your store 1 day after the program started 14 days ago…Uh she said no..its all the Gov. fault..etc.
I truly believe DCH HONDA OF TEMECULA is dragging thier feet with the CARS credit application on purpose,because we refused to sign thier Contingent agreement.
However should this deal ever blow-up,we have the copy of the paper they wanted us to sign,with the all the thier wrong doings.We will let a judge determine who is at fault.

By: Pamela

Pamela — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 15:44:14 +0000

Our Dealership told us last night that if we wanted our New Car we would also have to sign a waiver. Gates GMC in Connecticut. We said no, they still have not given us the car. We still have our clunker, but no way to unwind from the program to go somewhere else. There is no one protecting the consumer from these wolves…we have emailed Sen Dodd, Sen Lieberman, Sen Harry Ried, Gov Rell called the hotline and turned them in and no one, no one, has gotten back to us. Even emailed to local TV stations about what was going on and the local newspaper. Nothing….no one cares that the consumer is getting screwed and the government is being frauded in these deals. We have no way of knowing whether the deal was rejected because of their errors or what is going on. But from the way the program was set up so that you drove home with your new vehicle that is why there was not supposed to be any worry or waiting for the consumer. They were supposed to be the ones responsible for making sure it was a bonnified clunker, had the proper paperwork from the customer and submitted it correctly. They are not doing this, it is wrong, many people in the same boat without their new car and some without their old and now having to pay payments on a vehicle they don’t have. Bad Bad situation. But, heck, I guess we were supposed to trust the Used Car Salesman huh? I think this is going to put a sour taste in the consumers mouth now. One thing I guarantee, I will not ever go to this dealer again and I will make sure everyone knows why! And it is a GM dealer! Thats what we get for supporting GM!

By: cathy

cathy — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 15:23:40 +0000

In short this is what it says..
CUSTOMER DECLARATION & ACKNOWLEDGMENT CARS CASH FOR CLUNKERS PROGRAM
Customer acknowledges that in the event the NHTSA determines that the above Trade Vehicle is not eligible for a CARS credit (due to it not meeting the programs requirements,an exhaustion of funds for the CARS program,or any other reason),customer remain liable for payment of full price of vehicle prior to application of the CARS voucher amount,and customer agrees to reimburse the dealer for the amount of the anticipated CARS credit applied to their new vehicle purchase or difference,if any,between the voucher received and that anticipated.In such event,customers agree to grant dealer a lien on the title to the new vehicle to secure the amount of customers obligation.If customer cannot,or will not satisfy their obligation on demand,dealer shall have the option to demand recission, in which case, customer shall immediately return new vehicle to dealer, customer will receive cash amounts paid,LESS reasonable charge for use and wear and tear on vehicle, provided the dealer WILL NOT HAVE TO RETURN customer trade-in and is only Obligated to pay to customer the SCRAP Value of such trade vehicle.”(the below part was taken off the NHTSA form.)”warning ”
“This is a legal document that contains certifications under the penalty of law.There are significant civil and criminal penalties for submitting false information.Please read each certification and ensure that the information that you are certifying by signing this documents,to the best of your knowledge and belief true,accurate & complete”

So my husband told the guy he wouldn’t sign anything until our lawyer looked at it…Then two guys came up and said you don’t have to do that just bring back the car.He said no I have a contract and I’m not bringing the car back.
My husband walked our with the un-carbon paper(meaning if we signed it,there would be NO PAPER TRAIL TO GOVERMENT)& we would not have a carbon copy of it Only DCH would!
DCH Honda of Temecula was trying to pass this off as a must sign contract/agreement from the CARS program NHTSA doc .Also on the paper they wanted us to sign, DCH put in the a BACK DATE(07/26/09 when in fact it was 07/31/09 next to where we were to sign our name, print it and date it.
Also DCH Honda did not put in the right type of vehicle according to the vin number.The one they have done qualifies for $4500.00.(when in fact they gave us a $3500.00 voucher)Also “DCH Honda” now has our clunker & possibly the $3500 cash from Gov which may have been already wire transferred into their account.
Is This dealer double dipping the gov? Or are they going to return the $3500.00 back to the government, if we return the car?
Or keep it..does the government have any checks & balances in place.
Also If we return the Honda, we can be charged for use age, wear & tear etc?(what ever price they determine).Loose our 2nd vehicle, husbands only transportation to work.They will not return it too us we get scrap value (what ever that amount is,no dollar amount was ever given to us in writing)?
We still have not signed it..
Yesterday 8/14/09 DCH Honda of temecula called and asked for me to fax them my Driver lic.I said what are you kidding me,you mean to tell me YOU STILL HAVE NOT GOT THE APPROVAL FROM CARS!We were at your store 1 day after the program started 14 days ago…Uh she said no..its all the Gov. fault..etc.
I truly believe DCH HONDA OF TEMECULA is dragging thier feet with the CARS credit application on purpose,because we refused to sign thier Contingent agreement.However should this deal ever blow-up,we have the copy of the paper they wanted us to sign,with the all the thier wrong doings.We will let a judge determine who is at fault,whos decieving who.

By: Pamela

Pamela — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:18:54 +0000

We have been speaking with salesperson, GSM and Denny Gates of Gates GMC Dealership. He tried to tell us that the NHTSA yesterday approved the wait till you get approval from government before releasing the car. This directive and notice did not come from the government but supposedly from the Connecticut Automative Dealers Association. There is no such update on the cars.gov website, the hotline says there is no such thing and they still will not give us the car. And like below, this is a cash deal! 18 Days and still not resolved.

By: casey

casey — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:06:42 +0000

Have you tried to speak with the gsm. If your like most cfc customers you have great credit and are good and honorable folk. Let him know your on his side and if there is a problem you would be willing to be fair in resolving anything that may arrise I’m confident most dealerships gsm’s would allow deliver. Being nice and sincere with your dealer always reults in better customer care. If not come see me our dealership has 30 smiling drivers.

By: rick

rick — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:51:33 +0000

how bout a class action lawsuit for the loss time of not having our new vehicles when we were suppose to??? I can see the little white envelope in my mailbox in about 6 to 9 months a short questionare and then a check for maybe $20 x 21 to 28 days = $420 to $560. that will suck some of the profit out of these deals for the dealers.

By: rick

rick — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:47:27 +0000

questions: do the warranties start the day we signed our sales contracts or the day we pick the cars up? let’s say the car comes with 3 months of free satilite radio when does the 3 months start? lets say our clunkers are/were more unreliable than not (prolly the reason we are trading them), we bought new cars to have reliable transportation. what if we went and got rental cars tomorrow while we are waiting to pick our new cars up so we would have reliable transportation, then after we pick our new cars up we take the dealers to small claims court (which is so easy to do) and sued them for the cost of the car rental. I don’t think you could lose, they held you up from getting your reliable transportation and violated the law at the same time. how bout the have conspired to get all of us to keep our clunkers when we were suppose to have turned them in when we signed our deals. and there are so so so many other parts of this that should really worry the dealers.

By: OhioTim

OhioTim — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:17:31 +0000

18 days since my purchase contract and the dealer still refuses to deliver my car. And I’m a cash buyer!

By: Pamela

Pamela — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:04:15 +0000

Lets see, I contacted by email, Gov Rell’s office, Sen. Dodds office, Sen Liebermans Office, Sen Harry Reids Office, President Obamas Office, 2 TV Stations WFSB & WTNH, 1 local newspaper and called the hotline. Finally got through on the hotline, they took my name, phone number and the name of the dealership. Still no vehicle. Even after speaking with the Dealership and reminding them of what it says they are supposed to do on the cars.gov website, they refuse to deliver the deal.

By: Dave

Dave — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:38:00 +0000

I am just amazed at the foolishjness of people who do not want the auto dealers or manufacturer’s to make any profit from sales of vehicles and to that end, believe in the fact that an Invoice is some kind of “bogus” document.. When was the last time the customer went into Best Buy and said I want yuou to show me the Invoice and when they do the customer wants to pay less than what the seeler paid for it….. Our cunsumers have to wake up to the fact that there isn’t as much profit in a car percentage wise as there is in anything they buy at the local convenience store or even at Walmart… Any dealship I know would be happy to see a 3-5% profit margine on his sold new vehicles…..

By: BOB R

BOB R — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:59:48 +0000

What is happening on the srap value ripoff all cars have $50 value with no estimates in writing

By: Rich Simms

Rich Simms — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:30:41 +0000

It is certainly not uncommon for folks to have problems negotiating with car dealerships, but there are solutions available to some of us….and probably all of us. Don’t negotiate with the dealer! Negotiate with the automobile manufacturer. There are three “wholesale” clubs in the U.S. One and perhaps all of them…Cos*** , Sa*’* ****, and B*’* have new car purchase programs available to their members…free of charge except for the original membership.

In simplistic terms this is how the Cos*** program works. They negotiate a fair price with the manufacturer based upon “dealer invoice” cost price, { which we all know is somewhat bogus } including options on the particular vehicle. Then a dollar figure BELOW that dealer cost price is negotiated between the two parties. That discount below dealer cost varies, but one thing is guaranteed with them all. All manufacturer’s dealer and customer “sales incentive” are required to be passed along to the buyer in the form of cash reduction in the cost of purchase. In my case I bought a 2010 Toyota for $750.00 below dealer invoice cost.

There are several negative aspects to these programs. 1) The favorite dealer of your manufacturer choice might not be the designated dealer in your marketing area. 2) You might have to drive a hundred miles and do business with an unknown entity. However…This is essentially a negotiated contract between the “club” and the manufacturer with both you and the dealer as third parties to that agreement. I can not imagine any set of circumstances where one, the other or both would not step in to help in resolving any problems which arise with a dealer. In the end…you can have your new car serviced anywhere.

I should add…I took posession of my new Toyota three days before the offical NHTSA program went into effect.

By: allen

allen — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:37:47 +0000

For the people that reside in New York State I can feel Andrew Cuomo, our Attorney General getting real close to this one. I can just feel it.

By: Matthew Cullen

Matthew Cullen — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 03:38:58 +0000

yeah joe, we should pro-rate the depreciation!

By: Matthew Cullen

Matthew Cullen — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 03:37:43 +0000

agreed…. thats why i work hard and pay my bills. one problem is our government is going to tax us to pay for family planning. i don’t care about pro-life or pro-choice. i only care about what its going to cost. i can make my own plans. the lack of implementation this plan has discredits others to come after but i think this discussion is for a different website. when are we going to get http://www.governmenthealthcarefacts.com?

By: Joe

Joe — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 03:31:56 +0000

our cars have all got to be worth about $500 less than we paid for them by the time we get to pick them up in depreciation alone.

By: Joe

Joe — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 03:29:37 +0000

this is the same government that is going to fix our health care problems? government yea we need more of it!!! this program is so well designed and executed. what a joke

By: Matthew Cullen

Matthew Cullen — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 03:27:01 +0000

CHEERS STEVE!!!! WTF IS GOING ON????

By: Steve

Steve — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 03:04:34 +0000

How about a government that will follow its own laws.

Trust is being eroded. Our local representation, congress, is currently in recess. The law that they passed is not being followed by the NHTSA. If congress was in session, I suspect this issue would receive attention.

Is Citibank keeping the interest on the unpaid funds. Are they delaying strategically to keep this interest? Or, has the additional 2 billion not been released to the NHTSA yet, meaning that the program is currently unfunded?

The silence on this issue from the NHTSA is DEAFENING!

By: Dave

Dave — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 02:21:46 +0000

Please let me buy the vehicle I have chosen from a dealer who will abide by the law and deliver.

By: Joe

Joe — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 01:44:50 +0000

Inspector General 1-800-424-9071

By: Matthew Cullen

Matthew Cullen — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:23:42 +0000

exactly get off the court trade my vehicle to a dealership that can play the game and I’ll go to that dealership.

By: JD

JD — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:17:25 +0000

Come on, people! Buying a car is probably one of the biggest purchases most of us will ever make (outside of real estate). It should be F-U-N!

Good Lord, it pains me to think EVERY government program should be saddled with reams of regulation upon regulation backed up by explanation upon explanation–it’s a wonder CARS got off the ground. And what a boon for Main Street!

Now we have greedy–admittedly, probably financially ailing–Dealerships wrecking the experience for 100’s of people who JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN.

Fine, Mister Dealer, if you can’t afford to play… get off the court. Stop making people miserable. For every person you offend today, you’re facing 10’s of people who’ll choose to shop elsewhere in the years ahead.

If you DO play, you’re within your right to require your Customers to deliver ALL required paperwork… or NO DEAL. But contingencies? I don’t think so! If YOUR paperwork is in order, you’ll get paid… eventually. Ha–since when has the Federal Government ever done ANYTHING at light speed?!

If you’re a Customer and can’t get your act together, stop bellyaching. You’re wrecking the experience for everyone who comes after you.

I, for one, had a delightful experience and couldn’t be happier. Breaks my heart how they’re putting down that Jeep, but it’s the right thing to do.

By: Matthew Cullen

Matthew Cullen — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:05:02 +0000

I understand that… but I’m unless the pot gets stirred its not going to get fixed for dealers. The fire of change has to get lit somewhere. This lawlessness can’t persist. The waiting period needs to be clearly defined by the NHTSA to reassure the consumer and dealer, after that I presume there is no problem.

I suggest that the system is not just between the dealer and the gov but the dealer gov and consumer. the dealer and consumer should have an invoice number and access to the same information.

We’ve all heard the horror stories about crooked dealers manipulating any variable to their advantage. Can’t deny it. The lack of transparency compounds the issue. I don’t trust the car fox, I want to know and see the process for myself. If that were the case I would have a little more patience. Until that happens, I’m asking law enforcement to get involved.

Again you have to HAVE THE PROBLEM before anything gets addressed.

I trust my sales person is acting in my best interest withing the boundaries that his dealership lets him. I don’t trust the dealership or any for-profit organization enough not to ride them as much as I can. I would be an ignorant consumer in that case.

If I can inform every authority as I have then and spark a fire that resolves this common problem among consumers and dealerships then we can all go about our lives….

By: JP

JP — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:25:43 +0000

EXACTLY! Dealers have gone 20+ days without getting paid.

By: JP

JP — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:25:04 +0000

Dealerships do not have the cash to release these vehicles. You have to pay the floor plan off and no new car deal has $4,500 of profit. NHTSA has no legal power of a dealer holding a vehicle. They own it until it is funded.

By: Steve

Steve — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:18:50 +0000

The NHTSA has not followed the law by not paying dealers within 10 days.

By: Matthew Cullen

Matthew Cullen — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:45:25 +0000

there is a binding agreement. its called the law. they just need to do their homework and get the paperwork correct. if you do it right the first time there is no risk. how hard is that.

I contacted my State Attorney General today and submitted a package of supporting information. Including a detailed description of the day my dealer called me, told me to come pick the car up, started the insurance policy, then canceled the insurance policy and backed out of the appointment made to transfer the car to me.

I have an insurance card with the VIN, the advertisement for the car with the VIN, the invoice with the VIN and the receipt for my deposit.

Between the Office of Investigator General and the Attorney General, the later of the two will be the fastest response considering the amount of staffers they have.

I understand the position of the dealership and their concern but the system is the system. When us consumers engage in any system we have to suffer the good and bad of the system. With a consistent lack of transparency regarding dealing with a dealership, it seams they are trying our shoes on for a change.

Play ball, play hard, make them squirm like they make us squirm at the business table.

By: John

John — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:55:42 +0000

My dealer continues to tell me they will not release my new vehicle until they have received the money from the governement.

By: Joe

Joe — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:47:17 +0000

As cut and dry as this may sound I still think the dealers are taking a big risk giving you a car with out at least getting some kind of binding documentation from the NHTSA that the clunker is in fact accepted by them and meets the requirements. I know 35 or 4500 is allot to us but it’s just as much to them. We were in the same position as most of you but our dealer was able to get our deal through fairly quick I think. I must say though the week we waited drove me nuts not knowing and feeling stuck and possibly being left out with no inventory left. All I can sat is if the paper work is right and you know it just wait it out. Good Luck all

By: PaullDVD

PaullDVD — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:14:52 +0000

I just called my salesman ready to ask about the CARS website statement and he said I can come pick up my car when I want, that they are releasing all of the ones they have sold. So, I’ll be picking up my new Sentra Saturday morning and leaving them my old Explorer. Going from EPA 15 to EPA 29. Thanks for all the great info supplied here. I hope for the best for everyone still being held hostage out there!!!

By: Joe

Joe — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:50:36 +0000

Inspector General 1-800-424-9511

By: Ohio Greg

Ohio Greg — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:36:14 +0000

Eric-> “…my paperwork has been rejected due to a gap in my registration history (I renewed my plates late this year)”

Your situation is not unusual. Even short lapses of time in your registration and/or insurance coverage WILL get your paperwork rejected by the government…and there’s not much a dealer can do about it. Your beef is with the insane CARS rule, not the dealer. You’re getting hosed by the government…why do you think the dealer should give you a car and eat the rebate?

By: Bill

Bill — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:04:47 +0000

Hurray! Due to the new message on the CARS website, I will be picking up my new car tomorrow!

By: Eric

Eric — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:42:25 +0000

Also, my dealer claims that C4C is being suspended (again) as of 3:00 this afternoon has anyone else heard about this?

By: Eric

Eric — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:41:14 +0000

I called my dealer this morning after reading about the NHTSA weighing in on nondelivering dealers so that I could pick up my car. When I got to the dealership, they told me that my paperwork has been rejected due to a gap in my registration history (I renewed my plates late this year). The thing is that we’d already finalized everything and the only thing that was holding up delivery was them waiting on their money from the government. This is all after they’ve screwed up submission once and while waiting for a proper copy of my registration history, they sold the first car I was buying! What’s everyone’s opinion, should I be taking the car and the dealer eating the cost?

By: DM

DM — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:58:55 +0000

Let’s remember that it was the auto industry AND the car dealers association lobbyists that pushed for the Clunkers program in the first place. They also were instrumental in getting it renewed.

And yet, the dealers bitch and whine about how much additional work this all is. If they don’t want to participate, that’s fine. It’s their business. But to complain about the added work is ridiculous. Times are tough. Sales for them sucked up until now.

What they are saying is: “We would like the government to pay for a program that increases sales, spurs profit for us, at the same workload as selling a car outside of the program.”

HEY DEALERS: It’s a recession. We are all having to work a little harder. Quit complaining!

By: joe

joe — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:02:36 +0000

seems like if you bought a ford, ford should step in and make the dealer follow the law. like wise for chevy or subaru.

By: allen

allen — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:54:23 +0000

You won’t be waiting on the phone if you call the Inspector Generals office and turn these non delivering dealerships in, 1-800-424-9071. The dealers wanted the program, they got it. Now, either they are in or they are out. If the dealer immediately takes himself out of the program and doesn’t do any more cash for clunker deals then fine they are good in my book. But, if they are going to continue to sells cars under the cash for clunkers program then they should abide by the rules of the program. They would not have had the August that they have had had it not been for the program to begin with.