Get out a calculator and consider the following…

-> The average rebate so far is $4200.
-> There are 16,000 registered CARS dealers.

If each dealer did just TWO clunker sales per day since July 27, the $3B is gone.

Cash for Clunkers is going to implode…soon.

We the people own this program and deserve answers!!! GET TO WORK

REVOLUTION!!!!

I invite anyone who wants to learn to come to my store and try to not only process on of these deals but then try to submit it to the govt website. MAybe some of you should learn about it before you complain. just a thought

In terms of a trade, IF the vehicle is worth approx $4500, at least we have something to either resell or wholesale. Under this program, we just have to hope the govt pays us our $4500.

As far as backing out of the program, we have delivered our cars from day one to the customer. I am just sick of people crying about not getting their car when they are basically getting $4500 for a car that is prob worth $400. If this program was set up so that the customer was the one on the hook for the $4500 I would like to hear how satisifed you would have been then. You front the money and then hope it comes back to you.

Exactly! Well said.

@the rest: It’s not jive, and nobody held a gun to your head to buy that alarm or settle on the price you got–any more than anyone holds a gun to a dealer’s head to work with C4C.

However, NHTSA has changed the game several times. In the meantime, for folks who took delivery of their new car, they are driving while the dealer is waiting for the govt’s check to clear. All the while having to support a floorplan cost as if the car is actually still on the lot.

By the way, how about that this $4500 is NOT income for the buyer but IS income for the dealer? Not only do they have floorplan costs, they also end up paying taxes on the amount that buyers get untaxed.

There are a lot of dealers who have not implemented this program correctly and in some cases not fairly or even not legally. However, that doesn’t change the fact that those dealers who participated correctly based on a gov’t promise of “ten days” remimbursement–and let the cars off their lot as they were supposed to–are taking all the risk of the transaction.

I look at the C4C more as a $3,500 or $4,500 down payment, not a trade-in. The dealer cannot turn around and sell the C4C car like they could a real trade-in.

@ Brian,

But if I walked in with a $4,500 cash down payment, which, as far as I’m concerned, is what this deal equals(+ a little more paper-work) would you not deal with me???? Of course you would! So there is a wait time for the $4,500 down payment which, like I said earlier, should be fronted by the manufacturers, the REAL beneficiary of this program!!

Your numbers aren’t adding up to me. Are you telling me that Ford makes you pay the rebate? That’s what you are trying to say if you say you $2500 behind due to the rebate. If Ford is paying the factory rebate, then what you would owe Ford is $15,875. (invoice less rebate).

As far as the $4500 goes, I have another question. If a person walked in and bought that Focus, didn’t participate in the C4C program, but happened to have a trade-in worth exactly $4500. Would make that deal? I think so. Now, for arguments sake, you do have to pay Ford for the Focus, minus any rebate, the day you sell it. Are you trying to tell me that you have already sold the trade-in worth $4500 to you, in order that you wouldn’t be $4500 behind?

The CFC money is supposed to act just like a trade-in would. I will grant that the government has been way to slow in reimbursing for C4C money. But then again, all the trade-ins you get aren’t turned around in 10 days either, I bet.

Why don’t you just bail out of the program then? No one is holding a gun to your head. And please don’t give us jive how you don’t make any money. Did that car have no holdback? Did you get a spiff for a CFC deal? I just bought a $15,000 car that was a GMS deal, the dealer still made $860 bucks out of it and the salesguy got a $250 spiff. We know CFC is not profit for the dealer, the profit is in the sales.

Speaking from a salesperson standpoint I have to respond to your problem. You said “They knew what the deal was to begin with and how it was supposed to work.” That would be correct if the govt hadn’t changed the rules 3 or 4 times throughout the process. And also, you went on about the paperwork process and how easy it is. I invite you to come to my store and walk through the paperwork with me. Spend an hour or so just preparing your stuff and then have it kicked back because you didn’t put someones middle initial on the deal paperwork.

And to all of you who think dealers are getting rich doing this program. THE CASH FOR CLUNKERS MONEY IS NOT PROFIT FOR A DEALER. Lets use a new focus as an example. At $19375 sticker there is about $1000 in markup leaving a 18375 invoice. Now lets say the informed consumer comes in and I end up splitting the markup with them. The day we sell the car we have to pay off the 18375 invoie. There are 2500 in ford rebates and lets say the person gets the $4500 CARS money. That means we start about $6500 behind our invoice and wait for the $500 profit. Makes 2 hours worth of paperwork totally worth it

We received a call from Chrysler this past Saturday. A person wanted to survey us to see how happy we were with our new car. LOL!!!! My wife answered the phone and, by the end of the call, the person taking the survey must have felt pretty uncomfortable with what they were hearing!!! If the manufacturer thinks we have the car in our possesion and we , in fact, do not, they should be looking into why. The manufacturer should be fronting the money for its dealerships while they sell the vehicles and then the manufacturer can wait for the rebate. Then, if any further action is necessary, it is between the government and the car manufacturer. The dealers should be selling cars, not baby-sitting the program. What a mess. BTW, we are still waiting… 20 days and counting!

However, if you think the paperwork is simple, that is flatly incorrect no matter where you’ve worked, but that doesn’t even matter yet. It’s the monetary risk that’s overwhelming the system, because of the delays. On every 100 sales, a dealership has to float approx $450,000 because the gov’t isn’t paying as they asserted they would.

Ane whatever you don’t care about doesn’t change that. Time is money. I don’t expect you’d want to float the $4500 yourself? That’s sort of what they tried to make you do, more or less? And you rightly didn’t want to. For essentially the same reason they don’t want to.

The monetary risk is all on the dealer if the reimbursement falls through. Even if some other consumers who aren’t honest of heart like you are commit fraud, even inadvertently, that’s a chase in the court system. And that chase costs money, too.

Thanks.

And congrats to Joe from CT! I only hope we are the next to get a phone call. I again,though, will make sure that everyone knows not to deal with this dealership and its “5″ sister dealerships in the area.

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Keith says: “This is a single truthful article that explains that the government is not able to keep it’s “about ten days to pay you” promise to the dealers; it is this delay that has cornered the dealers into attempting these practices.”

Actually, Keith, judging from MOST of the consumers that have been posting their stories on this site, dealers started requiring contingency statements and holding new vehicles as early as July 1st, and most of the posters have been (or had been) waiting for cars from deals made in the earliest days (June 24-31).

Give me a break!! WHO DO YOU THINK MOST WANTED THIS PROGRAM IMPLEMENTED LIKE YESTERDAY? The car dealers, manufacturers, NADA, and their lobbyists, who were right in there every step of the process, including the formation of the Rules.

Yes, without a doubt, the system as set up was overwhelmed and had kinks, and still does. NHTSA should be working overtime and getting enough staff and whatever else it takes to get everything caught up so the dealers can get their approvals, and then their cash. That being said, many dealers have not been meticulous about completing invoices correctly (and no, it’s NOT THAT HARD), causing a large percentage of rejections and re-submissions, further jamming up the system.

And I’m not even addressing the dealers that are downright committing fraud in their submissions.

So here we are trying to put the blame on a Congress which was responding to lobbying and pressure by car dealers and manufacturers to hurry up and get the stimulus out to boost their business. They wanted it SOONER, not later.

“I understand what you are saying. But the dealerships signed an agreement and registered voluntarily for this program. They knew what the deal was to begin with and how it was supposed to work. I understand the problems with the USGOV processing. But still, they are very familiar with the documentation needed to process these claims. That is not an over simplification. ”

is an uninformed position. Ten days is not being kept to by the gov’t–it’s going to be weeks to be paid, and that cost is totally born by the dealers. Time is money.

Enjoy your car.

I understand what you are saying. But the dealerships signed an agreement and registered voluntarily for this program. They knew what the deal was to begin with and how it was supposed to work. I understand the problems with the USGOV processing. But still, they are very familiar with the documentation needed to process these claims. That is not an over simplification. That is a statement of fact. I have posted the name of the dealer to warn people not to go there. They were not above board right from the start. I have also applauded in other forums those dealerships who did go by the rules. But not going by the rules that were set forth is simply fraudulant. To get the USGov to fix the delay in the program is one thing, to feel sorry for those who chose the wrong way is just not acceptable. I know of several people who have put out $18000 or more to buy a vehicle and do not have it in their possession. Who is helping them? No one. That is my point.

We have numerous articles on the site covering the plight of consumers. In fact we have been the leading source for balanced coverage of both side of the CARS story.

Your distain for all dealers is just not fair. We know hundreds of dealers personally that have released 100% of all consumer cars. They have done everything by the book and have made thousands of consumers very happy with their trades.

Normally 3-4 days after a car sale is made the dealer has to pay off their floor plan financing for the car that was delivered.

The $4,500 rebate means that they are making no profit to pay any bills and are also out of pocket since there is normally $1,500 – $2,000 profit per sale at these price levels.

So if a dealer has 100 cars waiting to get paid from the last month, they are cash-flow negative pulling from reserves.

The point of the article, was to say that just as consumers expect dealers to release their cars, which many do, the dealers expect to get paid in a reasonable time period. That can not happen with the staffing levels at Citbank or at least what we were told last week.

The over simplification of filling out forms may seen a no brainer for you, but many dealers are completing forms correctly and not getting any indication that they are at least approved let alone paid.

That’s the point of the piece. The 30 day window created pain for consumers and dealers, most of which could have been avoided if the NHTSA and dealers had time to prepare, test and train.

I suspect the next thing that will happen is congress will “request” or require that NHTSA start cutting the checks to the dealers, and worry about any bad applications later, and any fraudulent ones after that.

That also seems to be a MO of congress.

Most of those folks in congress are just professional politicians. Most have no clue how the real world operates.